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Fewer verses to sort through this time.

Even pagans know that sometimes a higher power or a stronger god are responsible for what happens.

1 Sam 6:7-12
8 And take the ark of the LORD and place it on the cart; and put the articles of gold which you return to Him as a guilt offering in a box by its side. Then send it away that it may go. 9 And watch, if it goes up by the way of its own territory to Beth-shemesh, then He has done us this great evil. But if not, then we shall know that it was not His hand that struck us; it happened to us by chance."
10 Then the men did so, and took two milch cows and hitched them to the cart, and shut up their calves at home. 11 And they put the ark of the LORD on the cart, and the box with the golden mice and the likenesses of their tumors. 12 And the cows took the straight way in the direction of Beth-shemesh; they went along the highway, lowing as they went, and did not turn aside to the right or to the left. NAS

One can be in the right place at the right time and be in the wrong place at the wrong time in a short amount of time:

2 Sam 1:1-2, 5-10
Now it came about after the death of Saul, when David had returned from the slaughter of the Amalekites, that David remained two days in Ziklag. 2 And it happened on the third day, that behold, a man came out of the camp from Saul, with his clothes torn and dust on his head. . . .
10 So David said to the young man who told him, "How do you know that Saul and his son Jonathan are dead?" 6 And the young man who told him said, "By chance I happened to be on Mount Gilboa, and behold, Saul was leaning on his spear. And behold, the chariots and the horsemen pursued him closely. 7 And when he looked behind him, he saw me and called to me. And I said, 'Here I am.' 8 "And he said to me, 'Who are you?' And I answered him, 'I am an Amalekite.' 9 "Then he said to me, 'Please stand beside me and kill me; for agony has seized me because my life still lingers in me.' 10 "So I stood beside him and killed him, because I knew that he could not live after he had fallen.


It sounds like it was just luck that the man was the one to kill Saul.
If he had not wanted some fame out of it he might have escaped with his life but:
2 Sam 1:13-16
And David said to the young man who told him, "Where are you from?" And he answered, "I am the son of an alien, an Amalekite." 14 Then David said to him, "How is it you were not afraid to stretch out your hand to destroy the Lord's anointed?" 15 And David called one of the young men and said, "Go, cut him down." So he struck him and he died. 16 And David said to him, "Your blood is on your head, for your mouth has testified against you, saying, 'I have killed the Lord's anointed.'" NAS


Now did Jesus believe in chance? Did He merely accomodate the expectation of His hearers in the parable of the Good Samaritan.
Did He simply use a rhetorical device to shorten the story?
I suppose telling a fictional story to make a point gives one license to employ chance even if chance does not operate in real life. Or was this a true story that He used to make the same point?

Luke 10:31
31 "And by chance a certain priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. " NAS

Can God allow chance to work in His creation and intervene when necessary guide creation in His desired direction?

I notice the more I pray the more coincidences seem to happen.

SQ

Skepti Que.
I almost beleive that it is the Lord's will you be given the spirit of prophecy. In fact I might find myself in denial if I did not. You have an understanding and ability to explain that can only come from one of God's anointed. I would like to meet you in e-mail. The Lord says we need counselors. I cannot help but beleive his spirit is strong in you. Life is a breath, please be my brother at lackhack@yahoo.com.
I beleive God knows what choices we'll make in our life. As men, we can never make the Godly decision. Our only hope is our belief in his Son and his uplifting power. Amen and Amen. I love you.

Friend,
I have no desire at this time to engage in discussion off of this board. Please do not take this as a snub.
I have actually explained very little. I have asked a lot of honest questions to which I have received few satisfactory answers.
I bet Doc would grant us a little dispensation to carry on some extratopical dialogue since this group is so little used.
What do you want to talk about?


SQ

SQ - As you undoubtedly know, this is a very complex area, i.e.

The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law. (Deut. 29:29, NIV)

?For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,? declares the LORD. ?As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:;8-9, NIV)

I do not think that I have all of this area figured out and would be somewhat skeptical (nothing personal here of the person that thought they did, but here are my thoughts for whatever they may be worth:

God?s Intercession - Scripture makes it clear that God does directly intercede into our live and the space/time/mass continuum in which we physically reside. It?s clear that God interceded into physical laws (which He established) in the following examples:

Parting of the Red Sea (Exodus 14:21)
Gideon?s Fleece (Judges, chapter 6)
Jehoram?s disease of the bowels (2 Chro 21:14ff.)
Uzziah?s leprosy (2 Chronicles 26:19-21)
Drought (Haggai 1:11)
Chastens His (Deuteronomy 8:5)

In the New Testament God tells us that He chastens those He loves:

?Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore, and repent.? (Revelation 3:19, NASB)

In Hebrews 12:5-6) we are told that God chastens those that are his as beloved children.

In 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 we read, ?For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgement on himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.? It appears to me that God directly interceded and dealt with those that were partaking in an ?unworthy manner?.

Satan?s & Demonic Intercession - Scripture makes it clear that Satan and the Demonic Realm, under God?s allowance, can and do intercede:

Job (Job, chapters 1 & 2)
Woman bent double for 18 years (Luke 13:16)
Man born blind (John 9:1-34)
Demon possessed men (Matthew 8:28-34)

Scripture tells us of Satan:

?We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.? (1 John 5:19, NASB)

Second Causes - We live in a physical universe that is subject to physical law that the Law Giver established. When we break these laws there are consequences, e.g. jump off a ten story building without a parachute.

When Eutychus (Acts 20:7-9) fell out of the third story window and died (short time), was God chastening him? Or, was Satan testing him under God?s allowance? Or, did he fall asleep because he?d been up late the night before and subjected himself to the Laws of Gravity and Kinetic Energy to his own hurt? I propose that we do not know since God?s Word does not tell us. Another example might be Timothy?s frequent ailments (1 Timothy 5:23). Was God chastening him for some hidden sin or Satan testing him or was he genetically predisposed to frequent ailments? Again, God?s Word does not tell us. In the case of Paul?s thorn in the flesh, God word does tell us ?Who Did It.?

Other People?s Choices - When Achan stole from Jericho others suffered because of his choice (Joshua, chapter 7) The person that decides to drink and drive can harm others because of his choice. When Elijah prayed that it might not rain and it did not rain for 3 1/2 years, others were effected by God?s choice to answer Elijah?s choice to pray for this.

The Challenge - At least as I see it, the challenge is determining why the things that happen in our lives happen. I believe a beginning point is found in Hebrews 12:7, ?Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons.? (NIV) The hardship may or may not be from the Lord, but since we do not know, to search our hearts and recess our relationship to the Lord (as Job did) may be a good beginning point. Thankfully, we?re not dependent upon feelings, we do have God?s Word to search as a mirror.

Predestination - The word appears some four times in Scripture (Eph 1:5 & 11; Rms 8:29-30). Basically the word mean to determine beforehand. I do not personally believe that God determines our decisions, e.g. ?not wishing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.? (2 Peter 3:9) If God ?elected? who was or was not saved, none should be lost, as God shares with us His divine will for man in this passage. Sooooooooooo, personally, I believe God?s Plan is what was predestined, The New Living Translation (not paraphrase) says it this way in Ephesians 1:5, ?His unchanging plan has always been to adopt us into His own family.? I believe the ?key? to this plan is God?s omniscience and sovereignty. Here is an example I got from my wife:

If one took a potato and an egg and put them into boiling water, what would happen to them. Well, the potato would get soft and the egg hard. Both were in the same context, hot water. One got soft and the other hard because of their composition. In this sense one could say that he predetermined that the potato would become soft and the egg hard.

In Exodus 10:20 we are told that the LORD hardened Pharaoh?s heart. I propose that God knew, as an absolute, what the response to this plague on the part of Pharaoh would be. In this sense God hardened Pharaoh?s heart, as one would predetermine that an egg become hard. Although in our case, God could intercede and prevent the egg from becoming hard, Satan could intercede under God?s allowance to prevent the egg from becoming hard, or my house could blow up just as I was about to place the egg into the water.

A difficult and complex topic. Again, I certainly do not think that I have all of this figured out, but I do believe God gets blamed for a lot of things He shouldn?t. He?s allowed us to be creatures of choice and, unfortunately, our choices, both good and bad, effect others. One thing I do know, He has work for us to do, ?For we are God?s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.?

The moderator said near the end of his good post above,". . . I do believe God gets blamed for a lot of things He shouldn?t."

I reckon He gets credit for a lot He didn't do too.

The topic of God's intervention in the affairs of this world reminds me of a great book on the matter.

"Miracles" by C.S. Lewis.

It's indirectly related to this topic.

Have I mentioned I'm a C.S. Lewis fan?

Why things happen is a disturbing topic since most of the time we can't be sure why and most of us tend to read what we want into occurences.

I guess I don't find this ambiguity an insurmoutable problem; I can live with it. (Too much introspection is not healthy.) What I have real trouble dealing with is when someone tells me why a certain thing happened to me. At very very best all their statement can be is an educated guess. However, my feeling is that most of those assertions are nothing more than a shot in the dark, and as such, probably wrong.