Is Anything Everlasting?

[Skepti Que]

I know these are a lot lof passages and I tried to be honest with the context without quoting longer sections.

What does everlasting mean in the OT?
Has Israel been saved with an everlasting salvation?
Does Israel live in everlasting disgrace?
Does Israel have an everlasting Aaronic priesthood?
Without a temple can there really be an everlasting statute to have a day of atonement?
Can anyone be saved from an everlasting reproach?
Once an everlasting covenant is broken by either party is it in effect?

What makes this post germane to creation science?
I think there is a connexion and when you think about these passages (and others, I just got tired of typing) I think you will see it too.

Gen 9:16
16 The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."

Gen 17:6-8
7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."


Gen 17:19
19 Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him.


Gen 48:4
4 and said to me, 'Behold, I will make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will make of you a multitude of people, and give this land to your descendants after you as an everlasting possession.'


Ex 40:13-15
13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:

15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.


Lev 16:34
34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.


2 Sam 23:1-5
23:1 Now these are the last words of David.
David the son of Jesse declares,And the man who was raised on high declares,The anointed of the God of Jacob,And the sweet psalmist of Israel, 2 "The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,And His word was on my tongue. 3 "The God of Israel said,The Rock of Israel spoke to me, 'He who rules over men righteously,Who rules in the fear of God, 4 Is as the light of the morning when the sun rises,A morning without clouds, When the tender grass springs out of the earth,Through sunshine after rain.' 5 "Truly is not my house so with God? For He has made an everlasting covenant with me, Ordered in all things, and secured; For all my salvation and all my desire,Will He not indeed make it grow?


Ps 78:65-66
65 Then the Lord awoke as if from sleep,
Like a warrior overcome by wine.
66 And He drove His adversaries backward;
He put on them an everlasting reproach.


Ps 100:5
5 For the LORD is good;
His lovingkindness is everlasting,
And His faithfulness to all generations.

Ps 103:17-18
17 But the lovingkindness of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear Him,
And His righteousness to children's children,
18 To those who keep His covenant,
And who remember His precepts to do them


Ps 105:10-11
10 Then He confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
11 Saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan
As the portion of your inheritance,"


Prov 8:23
23 "From everlasting I was established,
From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.


Isa 24:5
5 The earth is also polluted by its inhabitants, for they transgressed laws, violated statutes, broke the everlasting covenant.


Isa 45:17
17 Israel has been saved by the LORD
With an everlasting salvation;
You will not be put to shame or humiliated
To all eternity.

Isa 54:8
8 "In an outburst of anger I hid My face from you for a moment;
But with everlasting lovingkindness I will have compassion on you,"
Says the LORD your Redeemer.


Jer 20:11
11 But the LORD is with me like a dread champion;
Therefore my persecutors will stumble and not prevail.
They will be utterly ashamed, because they have failed,
With an everlasting disgrace that will not be forgotten.

[Dr. John Nay]

Some of my comments are a bit lengthy with substantial (I hope - pun?) Scripture, but this topic is quite controversial and I am fairly familiar with the controversies. This makes it somewhat difficult to comment without raising more questions than might be answered. I?ve used some fairly lengthy passages of Scripture because I believe the Scriptures can speak for themselves, although I realize that there are very diverse interpretations of some of the passages. My personal view as to how intellect and sincere Christians that love Jesus can have such diverse views is found in the principles of interpretation (hermeneutics) that are embraced, e.g. the Lucifer of Isaiah 14:12 being Satan. The context, 13:1-14:23 clearly (I believe) shows that the ?morning star? of 14:12 is the King of Babylon. In my graduate work I was told that the King of Babylon was possessed by Satan. He may and may not have been, but I don?t get this from this passage. I had some wonderful, very intelligent professors that love the Lord and I love the Lord (intelligent? Perhaps more than somewhat questionable) Sooooooo, how can this be? I believe it comes back to the principles of interpretation that are employed in drawing out what a passage of Scripture says. The challenge is that principles of interpretation are not inspired. Sooooooooo, here are my comments for what they may be worth: (I?ve grouped some of the passages and questions together)

What does everlasting mean in the OT?

Answer: I believe that ?everlasting? means what it is used to mean in the context in which it is used.

Has Israel been saved with an everlasting salvation?

Answer: Yes. I believe this has to do with what Israel is used to mean. As you know, Jacob?s name was changed to Israel (Genesis 32:28), his descendants were referred to as Israel (Judges 1:1), under the leadership of Saul, David, and Solomon the nation was referred to as Israel (1 Kings 2:4), after the Monarchal Period (United Kingdom) Israel divided into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms during which each of these, and at times the two collectively, are referred to as Israel, and in the New Testament Israel includes the ingrafted branches (Gentiles) into the Kingdom of God (the Church). This is a very controversial area and ties directly to one?s eschatological (end times) view.

Isa 45:17
17 Israel has been saved by the LORD With an everlasting salvation; You will not be put to shame or humiliated
To all eternity.

Answer: Same as above

Once an everlasting covenant is broken by either party is it in effect?

Answer: I personally don?t believe that the Abramic Covenant was a bilateral covenant. I believe that it was a unilateral covenant.
Explanation - In Genesis 15:8-18, Abraham asks for assurance that he would gain possession of the Promised Land and the LORD gives him that assurance:

But Abram said, ?O Sovereign LORD, how can I know that I will gain possession of it?? So the LORD said to him, ?Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.? Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other; the birds, however, he did not cut in half. Then birds of prey came down on the carcasses, but Abram drove them away. As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. Then the LORD said to him, ?Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age. In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.? When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, ?To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates ? (NIV)

Note that Abram divided the animals in half (not the birds), as was the custom for sealing a two party covenant. In this sealing of a two party covenant, each part would walk between the divided animals, thus sealing the covenant. In this instance only the LORD passed between the animals, as represented by ?a smoking firepot with a blazing torch.? The word translated ?covenant? in verse 18 is not sutheke, used of a two party covenant, but diatheke, which is used to mean will. (Hebrews 9:15/Galatians 3:20) I believe the key to understanding this passage is God?s sovereignty and omniscience. His knowledge is so absolute, He could establish a covenant that was not dependent of man?s decisions.

What makes this post germane to creation science?

Answer (?): ?Everlasting? - The First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics dictate that the Universe had a beginning and eventually all useful energy will be expended (forgetting the movies and Star Trek). Romans 8:18ff speaks of Earth?s bondage to decay (Second Law) and 2 Peter 3:5ff. speaks of the end of the physical universe and all within it. We are spirit beings that are ?everlasting? --- spiritually. Nothing in the physical universe is ?everlasting?

Gen 9:16
16 The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."

Answer: Genesis 9:15 reads, ?I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.? (NIV) We read in 2 Peter 3:6, ?By these waters also the world of that time (before the Flood) was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.? (NIV)

In this context I believe that ?everlasting? means until the earth is destroyed by fire.

Gen 17:6-8,19;48:4;2 Sam 23:1-5;Ps 105:10-11
7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." 19 Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. Gen 48:4 and said to me, 'Behold, I will make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will make of you a multitude of people, and give this land to your descendants after you as an everlasting possession.' 23:1 Now these are the last words of David. David the son of Jesse declares,And the man who was raised on high declares,The anointed of the God of Jacob,And the sweet psalmist of Israel, 2 "The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,And His word was on my tongue. 3 "The God of Israel said,The Rock of Israel spoke to me, 'He who rules over men righteously,Who rules in the fear of God, 4 Is as the light of the morning when the sun rises,A morning without clouds, When the tender grass springs out of the earth,Through sunshine after rain.' 5 "Truly is not my house so with God? For He has made an everlasting covenant with me, Ordered in all things, and secured; For all my salvation and all my desire,Will He not indeed make it grow? Ps 105:10-11 10 Then He confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant, 11 Saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan As the portion of your inheritance,"

Answer: I believe that both parts of this (Covenant/Canaan) are eternal.
Covenant - ?Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.? (Galatians 3:7, NIV) In the context Paul is writing to the churches in the District of Galatia, i.e. Christians.

Circumcision - Romans 2:29 ?... and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.? (NIV)

One In Christ (Jew/Gentile) - Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called ?uncircumcised? by those who call themselves ?the circumcision? (that done in the body by the hands of men)? remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. (Ephesians 2:11-17, NIV)

Canaan - In Hebrews 3:7-4:11 we read:

So, as the Holy Spirit says: ?Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, ?Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.?
So I declared on oath in my anger, ?They shall never enter my rest.??
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin?s deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. As has just been said: ?Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.? Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief. Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, ?So I declared on oath in my anger, ?They shall never enter my rest.?? And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: ?And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.? And again in the passage above he says, ?They shall never enter my rest.? It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: ?Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.? For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God?s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience. (NIV) Seems to me there?s a song with a lyric something to the effect - I?m on my way to Canaan Land where the soul never dies ....? ??? Sorry if I have this a little messed up, but basically it says what I believe this passage says, i.e. the ?everlasting? promised land is in Jesus. It?s a land where peace surpasses understanding and it is eternal.

Ex 40:13-15
13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. 14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats: 15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

Answer: ?But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.? (1 Peter 2:9, NIV) ?You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.? (Galatians 3:26-27, NIV)

Lev 16:34
34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Answer: Everlasting as long as the Law lasted. Hebrews 9:11-10:14:

When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance ? now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, ?This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.? In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God?s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming ? not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins,
because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: ?Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. Then I said, ?Here I am ? it is written about me in the scroll ? I have come to do your will, O God.?? First he said, ?Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them? (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, ?Here I am, I have come to do your will.? He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Ps 78:65-66
65 Then the Lord awoke as if from sleep, Like a warrior overcome by wine. 66 And He drove His adversaries backward; He put on them an everlasting reproach.

Answer: Those that are adversaries of God are defeated and their defeat is an everlasting reproach (shame), in that it happened. Scripture teaches that ?we? are enemies of God before we Christians were enemies of God before we came to Him. ?Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.? (Colossians 1:21, NIV) The reproach is not everlasting before God because of the blood of Jesus, but it is everlasting in that it is a past event that did occur. ?Idealistically, we are to have a clear conscience as 1 Peter 3:21 says, ?Baptism now does save you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a clear conscience.? (MV, i.e. My Version). Perhaps I as a Christian am not to have reproach (shame) over how I lived my life before coming to Jesus, but I still do. Whether a Christian does or not does not take away the fact that they were adversaries of God and THAT fact is a shame.

Ps 100:5; 103:17-18
5 For the LORD is good; His lovingkindness is everlasting,
And His faithfulness to all generations. 17 But the lovingkindness of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear Him, And His righteousness to children's children,
18 To those who keep His covenant,
And who remember His precepts to do them

Comment: The LORD?s ?lovingkindness is everlasting?, because He is everlasting and ?lovingkindness? is a facet of His essence.

Prov 8:23
23 "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.

Comment: God had no beginning, as He has no end.

Isa 24:5
5 The earth is also polluted by its inhabitants, for they transgressed laws, violated statutes, broke the everlasting covenant.

Answer: This chapter (24) is basically a conclusion of chapters 13-23 where the LORD?s judgment on ungodly nations, i.e. Babylon, Assyria, the Philistines, Moab, Damascus, Cush, Egypt, Edom, Arabia, Jerusalem (Israelites), and Tyre. My personal view is that ?the earth? of 21:1 is hyperbolical language and refers to the referenced nations/people. I believe that Isaiah was called in approximately 739 BC (6:1) and that he prophesied for approximately 54 years, until 685 BC. The destruction of the Northern Kingdom by the Assyrians occurred in approximately 722-721 BC and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in approximately 586 BC. The Covenant that was broken had to do with the ?...laws, violated statues...? of the LORD in general.

Isa 54:8
8 "In an outburst of anger I hid My face from you for a moment;
But with everlasting lovingkindness I will have compassion on you,"
Says the LORD your Redeemer.

Comment: The same as earlier, the LORD?s ?lovingkindness is everlasting?, because He is everlasting and ?lovingkindness? is a facet of His essence.

Jer 20:11
11 But the LORD is with me like a dread champion;
Therefore my persecutors will stumble and not prevail.
They will be utterly ashamed, because they have failed,
With an everlasting disgrace that will not be forgotten.

Answer: ?The everlasting disgrace? in that ?will not be forgotten.?

As I mention, I believe that everlasting means what it is used to mean in the context in which it is used.